Click here to get more.
(Mechanical)
(OP)
10 Mar 16 21:14So, the last time I bought hydraulic hoses from a local supplier (who has since gone out of business), I simply told him I needed a 36" long hose with 3/8" NPT fittings (for a snow plow) ... I don't think he even asked what pressure rating, just assuming it was under psi. He didn't ask me how may wire lays or if I wanted "w" type fittings or much of anything.
Anyway .... I was about to order a flex hose and was a bit confused by my chooses.
I need: 36" long, I am running under psi (max my power unit will put out ... relief set to psi), SAE (ORB) 08 (1/2")fittings
So, the first item I pick is "hydraulax tough" from Discount Hydraulic Hose. 2 wire, psi, 3 1/2" bend radius .... $2.50 a ft ... looks great.
Then I keep reading ... R12 "very high pressure hose" ... 4 wire! but it only is rated at 4,000 psi with a 7" bend radius and costing $5 per ft.
And there are obviously other chooses (R16, R17, ...)
So two questions ....
1) as long as the pressure ratings are OK, is does it matter what hose I choose? I would have thought more wire wrap layers is better but yet the one with 4 layers has a lower pressure rating that the one with 2 layers.
2) some say "braided hose fittings" (standard crimp), some say "series W fittings" (bite to wire) and some give me a choose of either. I tried to find an explanation on the web ... I don't see one. I "assume" (but wanted to check with you guys" that the "bit to wire" fittings were better as I am guessing they penetrate the outer layer of rubber and "dig in" to the outer wire wrap layer.
Just want to make sure I order the correct hose.
Thanks ...... Mike
Replies continue below
(Mechanical)
11 Mar 16 00:05A lot of what you are reading is puffery.The bite through fitting may be appropriate for the heavier cover "10X" more abrasion resistant Tough hose.Mixing fitting brand and hose brand may be risky, especially if the crimping equipment does not correctly crimp the fitting to the hose, bite through or not.Will the hose shop assure fitting and hose will meet your pressure requirements? Who manufactures the Hydraulax branded hose?You pays your money and takes your chances.
Ted
(Mechanical)
(OP)
11 Mar 16 00:38Hmmmmm ...
So I take it,what you are telling me is that I should think about using a "name brand" hose?
So is one better than another I see Parker, Eaton, Gates ( I think I had gates on my snow plow ) ....?
Does the same go for fittings? Is a "brand name" fitting better than a "no name" brand? Is there a brand I should think about?
I just made the bad assumption that if they were "rated" for a certain pressure, they would work but maybe this is not the case?
Thanks ..... Mike
(Mechanical)
(OP)
11 Mar 16 01:04I should have asked also ... are all hydraulic hoses OK to use with synthetic oil?
I was planning on using the Royal Purple "Syndraulic". I did confirm that the oil is compatible with the buna seals in my pump.
Thanks again .... mike
(Mechanical)
(OP)
11 Mar 16 01:33Sooooooooooo (sorry ... I keep adding to my post) ....I did more reading and may have found one answer ...I looked at this page and it has a chart saying only hose 100R7, 100R8 and 100R14 are compatible with synthetic fluids.Discount Hydraulic Hose does not even sell any of these hoses!I am confused a bit ( nothing new ) .... the guys at Royal Purple (actual factory not local rep) is telling me their fluid is compatible with petroleum based oil as they recommend it at a replacement for "regular" hydraulic oils.Then why is there only three hoses that are "rated" for synthetic oil???Thanks again ..... Mike
(Mechanical)
11 Mar 16 01:36You have to look at the inner tube material for compatibility with your synthetic oil. Or look at the synthetic oil material compatibility list.Back to fittings. The bite through would be used with non-skive hose and the other crimp fitting would be used with skived hose. Skive=remove the outer cover. Non-skive=do not remove the outer cover.
Ted
(Mechanical)
(OP)
11 Mar 16 01:44Got it!
I was just about to write Royal Purple and ask their advice on hydraulic hose.
It is amazing how something as simple as wanting to use synthetic fluid can affect so many things. As I said in earlier post, I don't "need' to use synthetic fluid, I was just going to as I know it has superior lubricating qualities especially during start-up.
In honesty, I will probably take out the flex line when I am do setting the lift and pump. Right now the lift has some adjustment in it so I can align the lift. The original forklift was designed with a slight tilt (backward) of the mast. I need the lift to travel "straight" up to maintain the clearance between the car and the walls. I need the flex till I get everything set and lock in place.
Thanks again ..... Mike
(Mechanical)
11 Mar 16 02:27Forklifts tilt the mast to put a little slope on the fork roots, forward or back, to ease engagement and to compensate for deflection. If you are using a forklift mast, it's a good feature to retain, and in turn requires inclusion of a short hose section at the hinge.Since you intend to lift a car with the mast, I assume you'd be really upset about the consequences of a catastrophic hose failure.... which is a good reason to deal with a local supplier who will make exactly the hose assembly you need, using compatible hose and fittings.If you homebrew the hose assembly from random internet sources, and something goes wrong, who you gonna call?
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
(Mechanical)
(OP)
11 Mar 16 02:57Actually, I am using the lift as an elevator ... I know, scary thought.
It is for personal use so I don't have to worry about liability and such .... wife may kill me but she will not sue me if it breaks.
Even though the original forklift was designed for lbs of lift, I will have a load of 500 - 700 lbs ( electric wheelchair with a person and maybe an one person riding with them.
I didn't think about the deflection of the mast ( I should have ), I was just thinking they did this because of the "play" in the mast sections.
I am thinking I will load up the car (oh ... car .... now I know why you thought it was for a vehicle) .... sorry, load up the platform ( with solid walls and gate, open top ), with a load ( I was planning on using barrels filled with water ), and see if I can get the unit to lift "straight" up. I want this so I can maintain the clearances between the car and the wall.
With such a small load, I am guessing I will have a minimal defection of the mast. I will find out shortly.
I did order a velocity fuse (hose brake valve). I am (or was ... I will have to see if anything moves when everything is bolted down) planning to hard pipe everything. I was trying to get rid of one more possible failure point ... the hose.
Again, I am overbuilding ( and overthinking ) everything .... I do this on all my projects .... drives people crazy (but this was a good thing and encouraged when I worked in a nuclear plant). There will be no shock load since I have a flow control valve to slowly bring the flow up and down an the beginning and end of the lift. Since the load will be so small, the pressure will only be about 500 PSI. The lift is inside so no UV light, weather or such.
I just keep going over things one by one as I put the system together.
Thanks again ..... Mike
(Mechanical)
11 Mar 16 03:13I'm pretty sure this will end up more expensive than a wheelchair lift you can buy, but it will be a learning experience.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
(Mechanical)
(OP)
11 Mar 16 03:45Actually, you would be surprise ....We started building almost 4 years ago. We had ledge just below the surface. We got a quote for $30k to dynamite the basement out. We got two companies in to give us a quote on an elevator ... two quotes ... $15K, plus we found a grant for $10K so $5K out of pocket. Great, so we decided to raise the house out of the ground. The ground floor is now our basement ( unfinished ), the first floor is now 10 ft up. The price of building a first floor out of the ground was much cheaper that just the $30K to dynamite a basement out. It actually worked out well since we live in VT ( very rural ) ...one side of the house overlooks a small river and the other looks out over a wetlands to the mountains.Anyway, this year we got both companies in ... both came in close to $40K .... OUCH! Even after a $10K grant, we don't have $30K.So I bought the forklift for only $850 .... with valves, a spare power unit (for an auto lift ... $500), and a plc to run the flow valve and control the interlocks ... I am thinking $3K to $4K in the project.I am a machinist by trade and also an electronic controls specialist. So most of this project is straight forward for me. I have interlocks ( so doors are lock when the car is in the wrong location), over travel switches (that kill power, not just tell the plc to shut down), timers to shut off a pump if it runs too long (I saw a contactor weld itself on once and a motor burn up). The main power is two 12 volt deep cycle batteries so it will run even if the power goes out. I have separate batteries for the controls so I don't loose them even if the batteries on the pump go low.My shop is not built yet (poured the pad last year ... will start it right after I finish this elevator ... wife is getting tired of living in the "basement"). I do have a welder inside the house so I can build the platform.It is an interesting project ... and I am learning a great deal about hydraulics!Really, I am sure most of the cost of medical equipment is driven by liability insurance and by insurance. If you look at the cost of anything with the word "medical" on it, it is usually a rip off. If I remember correctly, her last electric wheelchair (it has a tilt function so you can lay back ... to stop pressure soars) lists at $40K !!!!!!!!!!!!! She has insurance thought the state so I am not sure how much they actually paid for it but I am sure it was a lot.I have learned to build many items myself. My wife need care every 4 hours thus she had never traveled (she broke her neck when she was 12 diving into a pool and is paralyzed from the shoulders down).Just FYI ... here is a link to an old RV I converted 8 years ago so we could travel ( we ended up living in it for three years ... freezing when temps hit -30) http://mcsele.shutterfly.com/ Again, cost driven project .... $18K for the motor home ... they wanted $25K for a lift!Thanks .... Mike
(Mechanical)
11 Mar 16 04:19Shutterfly says:To view the photo book, you must have Adobe Flash installed.Not happening; I gave up on Flash years ago. Sorry.I'm sure it's a really nice piece of work.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
(Mechanical)
(OP)
11 Mar 16 04:49I understand .... Flash is something that still gives me trouble from time to time.
Pembroke Pines ... sounds nice. We made a trip last year ( needed a break between building and moving into the house ) to FL. My wife had never been to Disney ... she loved it!
Maye in a couple of years we will visit again and make it all the way down to the Keys.
She would love to move to FL ... wheelchairs in snow just don't mix.
Problem is her job and insurance is here ... that is why I moved here from SC.
Take care .... Mike
(Mechanical)
(OP)
12 Mar 16 00:53OK ... so I called Royal Purple and talked with the Manager of Technical Services Department.
He said their fluid is compatible in any case that you would use petroleum based oil.
In fact he gave the example that you would not to use their synthetic oil with EPDM ... but you could also not use petroleum based fluid.
Thanks .... Mike
(Aerospace)
13 Mar 16 00:23xtal01-I understand you are looking at this as a hobby project. But for the same amount of money you are going to spend refurbishing/converting an old hydraulic forklift you can buy a commercial grade platform lift ($) . This 600 lb capacity platform lift is driven by an acme screw which seems like a more fail-safe approach than the forklift, and also one requiring less maintenance. It also comes with some nice features like an auto-folding ramp and sensors to detect obstacles below the platform.Do the wife a favor and install a commercial platform lift that already has all of the design bugs worked out. Save all of your creative energy for constructing your new workshop.Best of luck to you.
(Mechanical)
(OP)
13 Mar 16 03:45We actually looked at one of these.
First problem is most (as the one you listed) only go up 8 ft (about 100 inches). We need to go up over 10 ft. This is where there seems to be a huge price jump.
Then they start with the adders.
You will need a motorized gate at the top and bottom .... big adders.
We actually tried one of these at a neighbors. One major problem was the size of the car. There was a legal limit to the size they can sell (I don't remember exactly their reasoning but something about platform lifts has a small size limit than a true elevator) though I do see on the one you found it says 60" optional and that would just work for her. My wife tired a couple of these from different manufacturers ( we even went to a disabilities expo to talk with manufacturers ). Her wheelchair is very large ... electric, center drive (6 wheels), motor on the back for the reclining seat function, ... to get the gate to close her feet hit the front. If I make my own, I can make the car any size I want. 60" literally just worked .... to make it easy for her not to hit each side I am aiming for just shy of 72" giving her 6" of clearance at each end.
And then there was the speed. I now they list 10 FPM ... not sure if that is realist .... most of the ones we saw were much slower. Not bad if you are going up 3 ft but 10 ft takes forever. I installed one of these last fall for an older neighbor ( found a used one for $ ). It was just to get her in the house ... about 3 ft up. It worked great for them. As you said, ramp folded up in the back to stop you from rolling off ( if you look at the one I built for the RV, I used the same idea ), the stop sensors are micro switches on a spring loaded plate on the bottom. The two biggest problems they had were 1) I still needed to put up a gate at the top so on one walked off the platform (in there case, I just used a chain) 2) the second problem was they had to load her one, run around the house since even with a manual chair they could not fit on the platform with a person, and meet them at the top. Again, my wife tried it and just could not fit on the platform.
The big jump in price the companies told me was 1) because we are going up 10 ft ... so you need a very heavy acme screw 2) automatic doors ... two stop stations both with electric doors that will interlock ... my wife could not pull in and then close a door/gate behind her and would not be able to open one that is behind her when she gets to the top.
I have built the house to give my wife a maximum independence. Even with no use of her hands, two years ago she learned to drive. She now had a van that she can get in and out of herself. For the first time in her life, she has the freedom to go where she wants, when she wants by herself. I want to make sure she can use the elevator completely on her own.
Really, these lifts are great to get up and down a couple of steps and have a small chair.
I do appreciate the advice thought .... it would have been much easier to just buy one if I could have found one that worked for us.
Mike
(Industrial)
20 Mar 16 01:24100R12 IS a psi, 4 wire isobaric hose that maintains the same pressure rating across all sizes. This hose was engineered for a torquing and twisting inviroment and still maintain a high isobaric pressure rating. This is found on harvesters, porters, excavators... This would most definatley be over kill for your application.
100R18 is a thermoplastic hose that commonly refured as lift truck hose fore its use in forklift lift cylinder tracks. This isnt what your looking for.
100R2 Is cheap, available everywhere amd high pressure ratings with smaller sizes. sometimes the simplest thing is the right thing.
However, if your operating pressure is sub- psi and your looking for a little more flex. Go with 100R17. This stuff is great for compact sitsuations where plumbling is a nightmare, or truck plows that are contantly moving in all directions.
As for bite to wire or standard hose fittings. I believe what your asking is skive or no skive fittings. People have been skiving for years but in the last 10 or 15 years, most major manufacturers have started there own no skive fitting revolution with the development of no skive ferrules for pressures up to psi. Make no mistake, these fittings are 1 million impulse cycle tested just like there skive counterparts. But ease of use, and no need for skiving tools allowed these fittings to become a hose makers choice. That being said, in pressures over psi skive fittings are still th only way to go.
(Mechanical)
(OP)
20 Mar 16 02:14Awesome explanation!
It is funny how the suppliers can not tell me this information. That makes complete sense!
I did find out a bit more about the bite to wire or standard fittings. Both are no skive. There web site says: These hose ends are similar to Parker in that they provide a deep bite crimp into the rubber hose using steel &#;fins&#; inside the ferrule to dig into the rubber hose and &#;bite&#; into the steel braid or spiral
It suggested that these can be used on any hydraulic line (even two wire) but are "made" to be use on heavy duty line such as 4 wire.
As you may have noticed from my postings, I am a true "pain in the butt" (just ask my wife). I hate making any decision without a clear reason. I was the kid who always ask "why"?
Thanks so much again ..... Mike
Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.
Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.
Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login
Hydraulic fittings connect the wires in the hydraulic system, such as hoses and pipes. Most fittings have a male and female component connected to form a connection. These connections help control and guide the flow of hydraulic fluid in the conductor while preventing leakage and maintaining pressure.
There are mainly five well-known hydraulic fitting suppliers in the world. They are Bosch Rexroth, Daikin Industries, Eaton, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Parker Hannifin. We are familiar with these five major hydraulic fittings supplier brands, as well as some Hydraulic accessories companies we do not know, how we choose to follow them and buy their products. Please be patient and read the suggestions.
How to find a good supplier of hose fitting?
Hydraulic hose fittings and adapters are widely used in hydraulic systems to connect hoses to other hydraulic components such as valves, actuators, and cylinders to allow fluid conveyance. Although hose fittings and adaptors seem to be very tiny parts of the hydraulic systems, they perform very critical roles in providing strong and secure connections by maintaining safe pressure and preventing potential leakage.
Unfortunately, hydraulic fittings and adapters of wrong choice will cause slow down, or &#;strikes&#; of working hydraulic systems, or even worse, accidents and casualties. To avoid all these hassle and hazard, it is essential to find suppliers who are capable of supplying hydraulic fittings and adapters that are strong, reliable, and versatile enough to perform safely and effectively in respective applications.
And here are some tips about how to do so:
China is the biggest exporter of steel fittings and adapters around the world. No matter you are buying from local, or foreign countries such as Korea, Italy, Turkey, etc, it would make sense to start sourcing from China. They will make great substitutes.
If you already started buying from China, here are some keys to ask before finalizing your supplier's list.
Material
Carbon steel: #45, #35, #20, 08F. Price could vary greatly with different materials been used, with most expensive #20 #35 and least expensive 08F. Sometimes you getting cheaper ones is only because your supplier is using cheap steel. It is not always a bad case as you could happen to just need cheap steel. Let's say your hydraulic system is not very demanding in pressure, it is economic to use 08F rather than #20 #35. Nevertheless, if your hydraulic application is critical in pressure, it is rational to buy #20 #35 #45 to avoid any potential explosion.
Surface Treatment (Electroplate)
The most common plate is zinc plating, also known as Cr3+ plating. However, the price could again differentiate with same plating. Therefore, it is smart to ask about corrosion resistance time, also known as salt spray test hour. Usually, the industry standard is 96 hours, but prices make differences. It could be as low as 72 hours, or as long as 560 hours or above, depends on your specific needs. On the other hand, there is other kinds of plating such as Nickle zinc plating, which is more expensive and of course for more demanding applications.
Standards
The most popular standards of hose fittings and adapters are SAE and Eaton. They differ in hexagons as people in different countries use different wrenches. Overall SAE and Eaton standards are interchangeable, but countries do have their own preferences. Therefore, it would be wise to make sure which standards you use and inquire accordingly.
Forge Plant
It is important for your supplier to have his/her own forge plant to lower home costs, maintain consistent product quality, and fasten lead time.
Keep these in mind and you will probably find a great supplier.
Benefits of choosing Chinese hydraulic hoses
There are many manufacturers and suppliers of large and medium hydraulic hose fittings worldwide. China is currently the world's largest exporter of hoses. What are the benefits of choosing Chinese hydraulic hoses?
Low price
With competitive price and timely delivery, zkhthydraulics sincerely hope to be your supplier and partner.
The price of hydraulic hoses in China is very attractive. Distributors go to China to buy hoses and fittings at a lower cost and sell locally to earn high profits. Choosing a Chinese manufacturer can bring him a much richer profit than hydraulic parts suppliers in other countries.
The complete supply chain system
China is known as the world's processing factory. In China, you can find more than 95% of the hose models you have. And efficient production capacity and fast logistics system allow you to receive products in the shortest time. It does not affect your sales and guarantees adequate supply.
Customized services
Generally, China's hydraulic hoses and accessories products will provide customized services. They can make the hoses and accessories you need according to your needs. Flexible and customized services will surely satisfy you.
How to find a manufacturer of hydraulic hoses and accessories in China
The three most mainstream ways to find lift manufacturers in China
B2B platform
The corresponding manufacturers can be found on various b2b platforms. China's well-known b2b platforms are Alibaba and made in china
Google search engine
The website information of Chinese manufacturers of hydraulic hoses and accessories is included in Google's database. You can search for them with different keywords.
Foreign trade exhibition
Through foreign trade exhibitions, you can get the contact information of most Chinese manufacturers of hydraulic hoses and accessories, and exchange and negotiate on the spot.
How to choose a manufacturer of hydraulic hoses and accessories in China
Hydraulic Fittings Price
When it comes to price, you may often hear suppliers asking how much you want to buy. As you can see, the reason is that mass production is more efficient and less expensive for the factory.
If a production line needs to switch orders back and forth, efficiency suffers. If you are buying in bulk, you can ask your Chinese supplier for more price support.
Quality of hydraulic fittings
One thing you should know is that components used by different suppliers can vary widely, even if they are the same hydraulic fitting.
Delivery of hydraulic Fittings
Third, timely delivery will minimize your out-of-stocks. Especially if you are doing some marketing activities, we should prevent late delivery.
In addition to the above three aspects that need attention, there are some places that need special attention.
Cstomized product
Different markets have different functional requirements and specification requirements. Therefore, customization for a variety of different needs is very important.
In addition, the technology of hydraulic joint products is also more mature.
You can specify the features you want in a product and then check with the vendor to see if the product meets your needs.
Hydraulic accessories supplier qualification
Hydraulic fittings are a production machine with very high barriers to entry. For European countries, CE certificate is mandatory. For the US market, both exporters and importers are required to register with the FDA if they sell as "hydraulic accessories".
Having said that, you should verify their eligibility.
After-sales service
Besides product, price and delivery time, the service of the supplier is also important. Whether it's answering your questions in a timely manner or helping you with after-sales issues, these can impact your business operations.
You can observe the supplier's performance during the communication process to see if they have these experiences and the ability to provide good service.
China's outstanding manufacturer of hydraulic hoses
Lake Hydraulics was founded in and is dedicated to the development and manufacture of hose fittings, hydraulic adapters, hose assemblies and other related products that are widely used in mining, machinery, transportation, shipping, and oil fields.
Our ability
Company
Lake Hydraulics
Established
Size of the factory
18,000 square meters
Number of personnel
> 100 people
Certificates
ISO&#;&#;RoHS
Our client
With reliable quality, decent price, and superior service, we have successfully established our reputation and won over customers from worldwide. Some of our big clients are Parker, Eaton, Terex, PrincessAuto, etc. Our cooperation includes OEM/ODM service, customization, and so on. We will strive to keep up our work, upgrade and improve, innovate and invent, and thus strengthen the partnerships with our clients.
END
If you need to purchase hydraulic accessories or hoses, please contact us. Or visit our website.https://www.laikehydraulics.com
For more information, please visit Hydraulic Hose Adapters.